QR tension affects shifting

I'm sorry this is so long

For the past few months (and I've been tracking down this issue the whole time ) I have noticed when I was in 9 (the smallest sprocket on the cluster) that the chain wanted to climb into 8 and it just did not make it and I would sense a skipping feeling. This skipping feeling seemed to be related to the air temp. The cooler the temp the more it wanted to skip. It did not matter if I was in the number 2 or 3 chain ring. Furthermore I could not predict if or when it would skip. Some days it would not skip at all.

The trike in question is an 2013 ICE Adventure HD FS with stock components other then the small chain ring.

• Rear derailleur - Sram X7
• Shifters - Sram X5 Twist grip
• Cassette - ICE custom Capreo 9-32 9 speed

The chain is

• clean.
• lubricated.
• not worn (stretched) to the point it needs to be changed. This has been checked with multiple chain measurements and different tools (Park CC2 and Park CC3). With the CC3 the 0.75 side will not go between the rollers and with the CC2 the reading is just over 0.5 which when compared to a new chain is almost the same reading.
• does not appear to have any frozen links. This has been checked for multiple times by very slowly turning the crank backwards with the chain on the #9 sprocket.
• has has almost 3100 miles along with the cluster and the number 2 and 3 chain rings.

The rear dérailleur

• appears to be properly aligned and adjusted. The top idler pulley is under the proper sprocket for the any chosen gear. This has been viewed both up close and from a distance.
• pivot points are lubricated and it moves freely
• high limit screw has been adjusted until there is no contact with the boss and it still skipped.

Over the months I have made minor cable housing adjustments (sometimes major), both ways, while riding using the barrel adjuster at the shifter. Of course if I went too far, I messed up the shifting for the other gears.

All other gears shift properly, unless the above mentioned cable housing adjustments went too far, so I was beginning to think that the chain angle caused by the chain tubes could be the problem, but my wife has the same trike (not as many miles) that has the same angles and does not have the problem. That lead me to think that maybe I had a bent tooth on the #8 sprocket and sometimes it tried to pick the chain, but inspecting the cluster I could not see any bent teeth on any of the sprockets. With the trike on my rollers everything was working as it should.

A couple days ago while riding I noticed that the rear was not shifting into 9 at all which was a “new” problem. That could have been caused by my adjusting the cable housing while riding in an attempt to remove the skipping that day. It was not skipping then.

Putting the trike back on a the rollers, my testing showed that even with the dérailleur aligned under the #9 sprocket the chain would not move off of the #8 onto #9 even with the stop screw completely removed and slack in the cable. It would down shift into all the other gears and again up shift into all the gears other than 9. When I placed the chain on #9 manually (read using fingers) and it would stay there until I down shifted.

Trying to eliminate all variables I thought that maybe there was a slim chance that the wheel was not set in the dropouts correctly. While tightening the QR I noticed that the dérailleur cage moves inwards (bottom moves towards the inside of the frame). The amount of inward movement is dependent on how tight the QR is. I checked my wife's trike and the dérailleur cage has the same inward movement when closing the QR but she does not have the shifting issues. The bolt holding the hanger on the frame is tight.

After multiple attempts at adjusting and closing the QR I seemed to find the right tension that keeps the cage from moving inward too much, keeps the wheel in position, and permits shifting. Testing on the rollers without weight on the trike I could shift into #9. Of course stand testing is not the same as on the road.

On the road yesterday while running my errands (first chance to ride since working on it) I purposely rode in #9 more than normal to test my adjustments. The skipping was still present when #9 like it was before,

• random.
• different pedal pressures or cadence seemed to have a little effect. It skipped with low cadence/high pedal pressure and high cadence/low pedal pressures.
• which chain ring (2 or 3) did not matter.
• speed did not seem to have any influence.
• but unlike before the air temp was fairly warm.

Stopping with the shifter in #9 (pain to get moving again) multiple times so I could check the chain position on the cluster, I found the chain on #9 sprocket as it should be every time.

At one of my errand stops I opened the QR and turned the nut 1/8 turn counter clockwise (loosening) and closed the QR. For the rest of the trip, I did not experience any skipping while in 9, but I was not using the small sprocket as much because of more climbing heading towards the house.

Gary

 

Thanks A.D.,

On another forum the page count is up to 6 at this date and time.

Here is a partial list of the things that they came up with so far:

• The rear frame is bent
• The dropouts are not aligned (another version of the rear frame being bent)
• The dropout is bent (again another version of the rear frame being bent)
• The chain is wore out
• The cluster is wore out
• The dérailleur hanger(removable) is bent
• The axle is bent
• Gearing exceeds the dérailleur capacity
• The chain is too short
• The distance between the dropouts is too narrow
• The distance between the dropouts is too wide
• The sprocket on the cluster is on backwards
• The dérailleur has met its ability to move to the left away from the frame, although the problem is at the other end of the cluster
• The axle is too far forward in the dropout on the right side
• The hub is not centered on the axle
• The hanger is not tightly attached to the frame
• Something is between the frame and the hanger causing the hanger to rock
• The drivetrain is dirty
• The dérailleur needs to be shimmed to the right (outward)
• The dérailleur cable is kinked
• The housing ferrules are rusted and/or full of dirt
• The dérailleur is not adjusted correctly
• The hub needs a shim between it and the right side of the frame
• The hub needs to be moved to the right on the axle
  • These last two will move the hub in opposite directions

Only one or two picked up that I loosened the nut 1/8 turn and the skipping stopped. The loosened QR is something that I can live with since the wheel is firmly attached to the frame.

Others with the same make of trike have commented about their dérailleur cage moving while tightening the QR within the thread. Maybe it is a feature of the make.

That thread has become so large that people are joining in and by their questions and advice you can tell that they have not read the entire thread. Since the questions and advice is starting to repeat, I'm thinking of closing the thread.

Gary

 

Well, yeah, very few are going to read all 6 pages. I've known that Q/R tension can affect the indexing, but I've never experienced it to that degree! Good job finding it!

 

Skewers and Skewers

Reams and reams of responses.
Wow.

I read through it all more than once and didn't everyone miss mentioning
one variable?

Most inexpensive skewers, and all of the skewers on my bikes, use plastic
of some sort under the cam.

All of the skewers intended for use on a trainer are, as far as I can tell, constructed entirely out of metal: No plastic.
They're all copies of the classic, original Campagnolo design.

Most of the higher-quality skewers use metal of some sort between the cam
or handle and the drop out.

Most of the more common modern skewers use plastic of some sort between the cam and the drop out.
Plastic is less stable, more compressible than metal is and is, therefore,
a variable.

So, I tested this on my Vendetta.
It uses a very long 170mm skewer with plastic between the cam and bike frame and, being so long, is pretty elastic.
It shifts fine, when the skewer is installed the way I habitually have always done.
It over-shifted off of the small cog (11 tooth) when I deliberately installed
the skewer much more firmly than usual.

Now, I'm looking for an all-metal skewer.

Have fun!

 

Hi,

Thank you for your suggestion.

You are correct the skewer type was not mentioned.

Yesterday while riding with my wife, I was following her as I normally do I noticed that the bottom inside edge (left as viewed from the rear of the trike) of the hanger was aligned almost with the center of the smallest sprocket on the cluster. She did not go into the smallest cluster at all during this ride so I really don't know if she would have had problem or not.

I on the other hand purposely went into the smallest sprocket to see if I had the correct tension because of all the times I had removed the skewer to take photos for the other thread. :spin: I'm still learning how much to adjust the skewer nut.

Gary

 

Could the chain be dry? Not likely dirty.

 

Why?

I'm not one to like twist shifters on a trike, but the ones on this Q were nice
with the 11-34. Why go to a 11-23? As I recall, I was getting a gear with one
click with the 11-34, and I needed that 34 for some of these hills. That was the the most perfect trike I have ever had. Sorry you screwed it up.